Supernatural meets Classical Myth

[inmyriadbits]

I had a thought about Supernatural. Therefore, I'm sharing. .

My Classical Myth professor--first of all, she's awesome. She truly deserves the adjective erudite; she's also eloquent, precise, and often witty. Anyway, she has this one theory about Greek and Roman mythology that she's repeated a few times: the only fathers are dead ones. And by that, she means the only good fathers are dead ones, and that the fathers usually end up dying if they don't start out dead. One rationalization she's given for this prevalence of dead fathers is that a hero can't fully realize his (and in classical myth, it's always "his", not "her") potential. The latest example I can give you from the class is Aeneas being held back by Anchises (this is from the Aeneid, non-classics people), who persists in looking to the past. Anchises has to die in the story for Aeneas to step into a leadership role, and for him to look to the future so he can lay the foundations for Roman civilization.

This theory leads me to a worrying thought about my current obsession of a TV show. If you think about it, Dean and Sam are in the same boat as those virile, muscular, angst-driven classical heroes that they resemble so much. (Mmm...can you imagine them in the leg-baring get-ups the Greeks wore in battle? researchgrrrl, you feel me, right? They're so tall and built...*happy thoughts*) Which is a problem for Daddy Winchester, you see. Because that means he's going to have to DIE for his sons' own stories to be realized, according to my professor, and Dean just had to bring up the "What if Dad dies?" question in "Dead Man's Blood", didn't he? Oh, Dean.

Whether they resent it or not, both his sons are being held back by the father. Dean follows his orders, and his mission, without questioning. And Sam rebels against him without question--by which I mean, it's almost reflex for him to argue with his father about everything now, although I feel like he's not as averse to "this life" as he claims. I think if his father were removed from the equation, Sam would probably realize that his commitment to the hunt goes deep into his psyche, rather than merely being something John imposed upon him. I keep going back to this, but Sam was pre-law. He has a deeply-rooted sense of justice and need to protect people, whether he's doing it by killing evil beings or not.

As for Dean...the point has been brought up again and again in this show that he follows his father's orders like a good little soldier. Because of the way his father directs his life, Dean's never really questioned the way things are. He wants his family back together, but I get the sense he wants it back the way it was before Sam left, and Sam was right when he told him it would never be that way again. What will happen to him if the person who has directed his life so far goes away (i.e., dies)? I mean, besides even more issues to pile on the ones Dean already has? He's going to be pretty lost, and not in a good way.


In other news, yesterday was a good day. This was surprising, because I went to sleep at 5:30 in the morning for absolutely no reason. LJ. Email. Watching things. Not doing any homework AT ALL. And then I actually woke up for my 9:10am class, took a short nap, and went to my other two classes. Then, I joined ladyjaida and orangeaddict and watched (re-watched, for me) three episodes straight of Supernatural ("Shadow" through "Something Wicked"). They were both lovely and friendly and amusing, and I had a lot of fun. That was followed by another nap, dinner, and then the glorious movie It Happened One Night for my seminar. And then I went to bed *gasp* before midnight. That hasn't happened in a really, really, ridiculously long time. So, good day.

Comments

[researchgrrrl.livejournal.com]

Mmm...can you imagine them in the leg-baring get-ups the Greeks wore in battle?

Not only do I feel you on this (with both hands, baby!) but now that you mention it, I demand to know what has gone wrong with fashion's priorities that these two are not required to dress this way ALL THE TIME.

Very nice choice of adjectives to describe Sam and Dean, too, btw.

You make a fascinating, insightful argument and thrill me to no end along the way. *g* Not only do you get your geek on beautifully, but your point dovetails with a thought that had recently begun to bang about in my own head over here. (I started you toward the top of the thread so you can see how my brain has slowly been grinding into action.)

I think if his father were removed from the equation, Sam would probably realize that his commitment to the hunt goes deep into his psyche, rather than merely being something John imposed upon him.

I absolutely agree. Whereas as Dean is the Good Son, Sam is actually Just Like John. Reading this remark from you has completely solidified my own thoughts regarding what would happen with Sam in the aftermath of John's death.

To be honest, I actually thought John might already be dead when we saw him pull the trigger of the gun -- that that was Vampire!John rather than Our!John. On some level, I think I'm kind of braced for SPN to make the very point that you've suggested regarding the process of actualizing the boys' potential. *trembly lower lip* I really hope that's not the case but I think you've nailed the most significant and timeless element in this particular type of quest.

[inmyriadbits.livejournal.com]

Not only do I feel you on this (with both hands, baby!) but now that you mention it, I demand to know what has gone wrong with fashion's priorities that these two are not required to dress this way ALL THE TIME.

That's right; you need one hand for each boy. :P And you make an excellent point. Contemporary dress means people who want to look at girls are in luck with all the miniskirts and tank tops. Why can't we get a little leather armor for the guys back in style? (Um...was it leather? Or leather and bronze? Or something else? I bow to your superior knowledge). I guess Dean's leather jacket is as close as we're gonna get. But it makes me happy, too.

Very nice choice of adjectives to describe Sam and Dean, too, btw.

Did you like the "virile, muscular, angst-driven classical heroes" or the much more coherent "so tall and built"? Because both are absolutely true. ;)

(from that other comment)
If John turns up dead, well, the boys have been prepared for that as much as they can be all of their lives. If anything, I see John's death as the one thing that could make Sam hesitate to resume the normal life that he's so determined to have if he's unable to persuade Dean to retire from the Hunt at that point.

Hmm. You know, that's interesting. I've been worried about Sam just taking off after they kill the Big Bad Demon, like he told Dean he would. I worry because that would just break Dean, you know it would; that goes double if John were to die. Sam would be leaving Dean all alone--alone with his emotions and alone fighting evil. I don't think he could do that, as much as he says he wants a different life. Mixed up in that sticking-around-for-support would be Sam's growing realization that he's more deeply involved in this fight than he used to think. But I'm so uncertain about how they're going to resolve things, which just makes me so excited. I love unpredictable shows! It's so refreshing! I just hope they don't screw up the mythos to play to the audience with cheap twists; I know well the path that takes my TV shows. *looks sadly at Dark Angel, Alias, etc*

Thanks for all the enthusiastic response to my thoughts! Geeking about fandoms is one of my favorite parts of being a fangirl. It's like those rare, really great discussions in an English class when everyone has gotten into the reading and is engaged and passionate about exchanging ideas on it. I usually geek with Dear Twin (three HOURS on Saturday), but it's fun having other people to bounce ideas around with. :)

[spatz.livejournal.com]

Oddly enough, fathers (and/or mothers) are usually dead in Westerns, but of the redemptive woman rather than the hero. I'm also quite worried about Daddy Winchester's survival odds, but I think that his death would be more damaging than his presence in the boys' lives. Ideally, they can work on their issues before dying ;)

I keep going back to this, but Sam was pre-law.

*happy sigh* Ah, Lindsey, my love.

How'd you like It Happened One Night? I loved the Walls of Jericho - so cheesily fun.

Oh, damn, killer plot bunny. Sam and Dean and hotel room pillow forts.... *hides*

[inmyriadbits.livejournal.com]

Oh, Katie. You really love that class, don't you? Everything comes back to it. (Although I can relate; I've started doing that with Classical Myth *avoids looking at post*).

Ideally, they can work on their issues before dying

I...hmm. (aha! I have lightbulb!) I feel like this is true, on an emotional and personal level. I've realized the reason I'm torn on whether Daddy Winchester (why I prefer typing that out instead of "John", I'll never understand) will live or die--and which option would best fulfill the requirements of good storytelling--is because of the show's balancing act between the heroic/mythological/epic/quest aspects of the show and the personal/emotional/familial aspects (OMG, it all ties in! You can't see me, but I'm doing that thing Tamora Pierce talked about, sitting here typing and bouncing and chuckling "Good stuff, good stuff" to myself). Because really, to ring true emotionally with the people watching the show, Daddy Winchester would have to survive, and they would all have to work out and work around their issues with each other. Because people don't get convenient parental deaths in real life (god, that sounds awful; but you know what I'm trying to say, right?), they have to learn how to deal with their parents and get on with living, and that's how they realize their potential. Like Sorkin shows. BUT, as I've already talked about, the mythological storyline of Supernatural demands the death of the father for that heroic realization of potential. So there's the conflict, right there.

How the heck do they negotiate that split?

I loved the Walls of Jericho

Oh, Rhett Clark Gable. He was wonderful, though I wanted to smack him when he was mean to poor Claudette Colbert. But it was okay, because Gable is brilliant enough that you could tell sometimes he wanted to smack himself when he was mean to her. She was so cute, also. I loved it. There was a surprising amount of UST worked up by those two, also, and without saying a word. Glorious acting. 'Twas greatness.

Oh, damn, killer plot bunny. Sam and Dean and hotel room pillow forts.... *hides*

OH. MY. GOD. Awwwwwwwwww!!!!! *squeaks* Someone just has to write this. They just...there would be Little!Winchesters! And ghost stories! And forts! And possibly hot chocolate! Omigod, you're so being forced to write this and you don't have any choice or excuse or any way to escape me because summer is coming and I have to do something to keep me from going crazy without the Winchesters over the break! HAHA!

[ladyjaida.livejournal.com]

Why so smart?

I have no ideas in comparison. Just vague oozes. I can never express what I'm feeling/thinking about characters except through fic, so I feel deeply put to shame by this post!

[inmyriadbits.livejournal.com]

But your oozes are greatly charming! And lovable. :)

And don't undervalue your writerly skills. You may not write things out in the way I do, but it all ends up in the stories you tell. I may be able to spin out a theory academic-style, but the way you put forth your ideas is, IMO, more effective. Stories have all these things embedded inside them, and they almost always mean more to people than academic examinations of the same ideas, because stories cultivate an affection or fascination that supercedes analytical admiration. Analysis is important for teasing out those ideas, but the ideas themselves shrivel and diminish away from the whole. We don't squee like we do because they air an academic essay on the things I've been blathering about on the WB every week. We squee because we love the characters, and have formed this powerful attachment to and investment in their story. You create that same kind of attachment to the characters you write, and the ideas that drive the story are by no means missing. I can't tell you how many times I'll read something (and this has definitely happened while reading SBP) and it will just smack me upside the head and clarify something in a way that never would have happened otherwise. And I can sometimes write thinky thoughts about that moment, but I can't make the magic happen. You can. Sometimes I really can't say the things that are said in stories in my analytical way. Example: My seminar class, a couple weeks ago. We were discussing Beckett's Endgame; I was trying to say something about time and memory and how we experience life, but what I really wanted to say was everything Remus says in his big speech at the end of the gillyweed chapter in SBP. I could sort of tell everyone the ideas, but they'd lost all the magic in the process. It was frustrating, because I felt like I was just sucking the life out of something beautiful and not doing it justice in the slightest.

So. In conclusion, to quote House: "So between us, we can do whatever we want. We can rule the world!" Don't feel put to shame by this post, use it to help you do what you do--write beautifully!

Seriously.

(God. Why can't I use my powers for good (i.e., writing my damn paper)?)

[maribouquet.livejournal.com]

DUDE, I love it when you talk all smarty. It makes me happy.

I watched the pilot of Supernatural and man, it was cool. I need more!

Also, re: your thoughts above and classical attire. I have two words for you: SHIN GUARDS.

I mean, uh, three words, because also? GUH.

SHIN GUARDS, GUH.

[inmyriadbits.livejournal.com]

DUDE, I love it when you talk all smarty. It makes me happy.

*huggles* (BTW, fair warning: that will actually happen if we get drunk. I get cuddly.)

SHIN GUARDS, GUH.

I LOVE YOU. But it's funny, because shin guards make me think adecadeofsocceromg. So I'm adding another word: LEATHER SHIN GUARDS, GUH. Even better, yes? :)

I watched the pilot of Supernatural and man, it was cool. I need more!

Fear not; addict you, I will. I called to discuss with you, but got voicemail fun, so here goes. Have you watched/downloaded any other eps? Let me know so I can plan ahead what to get pre-marathoning. I'm thinking I want to hang out this weekend; whether it'll be this weekend that involves alcohol or not depends on how well my paper-writing goes this week. If it goes well, I won't have to worry about a hangover keeping me from finishing the two papers due Monday. If not, we can marathon, but save the debauchery for another marathon next weekend. See, it works out well this way; we have a better chance of making it through SPN before I go back to Texas with two sessions than one, and we can adapt to work around the demands of final papers. Sound good? Let me know which days work best for you and your class stuff.

[orangeaddict.livejournal.com]

...lovely and friendly and amusing, and I had a lot of fun.

Likewise!

Meanwhile, who is your Greek Myth prof? Is it Said? Does she speak more French than English?

[inmyriadbits.livejournal.com]

Likewise!

Yay! *g* It's just such a shame I met you at the end of the year!

My prof is actually Deborah Steiner. She's really quite wonderful; she has this adorable British accent and speaks in beautifully structured full sentences without notes or anything, and the things she says are brilliant on their own. Oh! And she'll do this thing, where she'll sort of very politely diss the translation we're reading by saying the Greek was translated wrong--she proceeds to give us the original Greek, describe the cultural elements that make the term impossible to translate directly, and illuminate this whole new meaning of like, the entire Odyssey, all from one little line or word. It's brilliant. I love that class.