do you...fondue?
Sep. 30th, 2011 09:29 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
inmyriadbitsI found this text file squirreled away on my computer. It dates back to when we still had Captain America playing at my theater every day, and I kept coming home with yet another random thought about the movie after watching various scenes for the fifteenth time. Et voila:
- I'm still enormously fond of Steve Rogers. I feel this needs to be said.
- The more I see of her, the more I like Peggy, and all her intelligence and competence. She's clearly off doing missions when she's not working with Steve; of all the people shooting at the saboteur who shoots Dr. Erskine, she's the one who wings him; that gorgeous shot that takes out the getaway driver; etc. And I love when she decides to help Steve -- often in that situation, you get the "you have to let me go!" speech from the hero to the love interest, and the love interest tends to just sort of relent and stand there, waving a handkerchief and watching the hero head off to battle. But Peggy? She fucking commits to that shit. It's like she decides, well, if I'm going to let this happen, then by god I'm going to make it happen. And then she gets Howard Stark to fly a plane into enemy airspace so Steve can parachute in, argues with Steve when he decides to jump out early because she wants to see it through, stands up and defends her decision to Colonel Phillips, and doesn't regret any of it one little bit. Talk about owning your actions. I'm really very sad that we won't get to see her again. I plan to make up for this by trying to convince everyone to write her into their XMFC fics.
- There's this one moment, after the "nobody's perfect" line -- Peggy has just walked off, and Steve just has the dopiest look of infatuation on his face; I half-expect cartoon hearts to starting flying around his head, for real. And then he visibly snaps himself back into professional mode. It is completely, unbearably adorable, every single time.
- Another moment: when Erskine and Peggy are trying to turn off the machine and Steve stops them, Howard Stark is the one who actually takes action. No one orders him to do it, and Peggy and Dr. Erskine both still seem undecided, but Howard listens to Steve and just does it. I don't know why I like that so much, but I do.
- Steve's motorcycle! Let's talk about how great his motorcycle is. I hope Tony tricks out another one for him, just like dear ol' dad.
- Okay, subtle cool thing I noticed re: the confluence of Howard Stark, Asgard technology, arc reactors, and Tony's suit tech. The Asgard box thing led to the disintegration guns, the Valkyrie doomsday weapon, etc. But Howard Stark then got a hold of some of that tech, and being a Stark, clearly did further work with it -- and my theory is that the arc reactor is a direct descendant of this. The movie itself implies this connectivity: if you pay close attention -- and have seen bits of both Captain America and Iron Man countless times over -- it's very easy to recognize that the colors, lighting, and sound effects for all of this tech (disintegration guns, Valkyrie, arc reactor, Iron Man's repulsors) are variations on a theme. That is such a cool thing to get to do with an interconnected movie-verse like this!
- It's hard to pick out exactly what Steve's character arc is, since it's not exactly the usual "man gains powers, struggles with responsibility" story you see most of the time, with radioactive spider-bites and armor-inventions and so on. (Or, as![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
marinarusalka said, it "makes for a nice change to see a superhero origin plot that doesn't boil down to "asshole learns to be a decent person."") If I had to describe it, I think I'd settle for "a good man become a great one"; he doesn't have to grow into his moral code or come up with one, he gets -- and then also makes -- the opportunity to put his ideals into action, making them reality, and it literally changes the world for the better. It's a very Frank Capra-type story (and I bet that Steve is a huge Capra fan, for sure), which is something that has sadly gone out of fashion.
- "The Star-Spangled Man" is ridiculous ear-wormy. It plays over the credits after the propaganda-art bit, and having to experience at work at least once every day was a true test of my sanity (not that it's not fun, in a supremely campy way, but OMG MAKE IT STOP). Basically, I have an enormous amount of sympathy for Steve, who I'm sure had the damn thing running through his head 24/7 during the USO tour. I bet he would start absentmindedly whistling it on missions sometimes, and the Howling Commandos would all throw things at him to get him to stop.
- Comparing/contrasting Tony Stark and Steve Rogers bears interesting results -- their origin stories have lots of similarities and key differences which make them very fun foils for each other. A few points:
1. A scientist friend dies in the process of helping each achieve their powers, and neither can do anything to save them. Yinsen sacrifices himself for Tony, while Dr. Erskine is shot by a saboteur; Tony, of course, blames himself both for Yinsen's choice and for creating the guns that killed him, and feels unworthy of the sacrifice. Steve just chases down and fights the bad guy in the pursuit of justice, and lives up to Erskine's belief in him. This is pretty typically them -- Steve is pretty solid with himself, and chooses to attack the external cause responsible without any self-recrimination. Tony chooses instead to craft an entire superhero identity around guilt, self-loathing, and over-reaching responsibility. (I really think he could've used the speech Peggy gives Steve in Captain America. Only, I don't think it would've really sunk in the same way.)
2. Family issues. Steve's dad died fighting in WWI; Steve tries to join the 107th in his memory. It's really not clear to me whether Steve knew his father -- and I don't think he ever did, the timing doesn't work out -- but his mother certainly raised him as a single parent. Tony's daddy issues can basically be seen from space: inferiority complex, resentment, estrangement, legacy, etc. They were both orphaned as teenagers -- Steve in the middle of the Depression at an unknown age, and Tony at 17 with, as always, more money than God. We don't know a lot about Tony's mom in movie-verse, so I can't speak to that aspect.
3. Body issues. Both have suffered drastic changes to their physical selves in the last couple of years -- Steve and the Super Soldier Serum, and Tony's kidnapping/trauma/arc reactor surgery. Again, poor Tony's is much more negative, and Steve seems to have gotten the body his mind insisted he had all along, but neither can be entirely comfortable. Tony's self-destructive streak is also important to note here; in the comics especially, he has a bad tendency to push himself beyond rational limits, and will sacrifice himself in painful ways at the drop of a hat. Steve is still a dork inside a pinup's body (and luckily has the modesty to handle this well), but he spent most of his life before the past year dealing with constant illness and frustration, and that leaves a mark on one's personality. Tony led a life pretty sheltered from violence -- at least on a personal level, despite his weapons development before Afghanistan -- and, as far as I can tell, didn't do much fighting if any before becoming Iron Man, whereas Steve seems to have been beaten up in every back alley and parking lot in Brooklyn.
- For those who might be interested, that list on Steve's medical chart in the first recruitment center scene reads:
Summary of Patient Health Issues:
Asthma
Scarlet fever
Rheumatic fever
Sinusitis
Chronic or frequent colds
High blood pressure
Palpitation or pounding in heart
Easy fatigability
Heart trouble
Nervous trouble of any sort
Has had household contact with tuberculosis
Parent/sibling with diabetes.
You know, I've never thought about it before, but Steve Rogers is a bit like Miles Vorkosigan. He's far less hyperactive and manipulative, obviously, but they both have that same "I won't let my body stop me from doing the things that need doing" attitude, and they both have pretty big ideas about what needs doing. Steve tends to do it more physically, though, even despite his initially weak body, so the serum was a great thing for him. Miles just developed a really twisty and ambitious mind to compensate; I honestly think if he were given the same treatment, it would do him more harm than good at this point. Hmm.
- So I've been thinking about it, and movie!Bucky is basically a combination of different aspects from Steve's childhood friend Arnie + the comicsverse Bucky Barnes. I don't really have any thoughts on this (aside from mentioning that Arnie was canonically gay and there was a plotline where Baron Zemo kidnaps his partner and Steve helps with the rescue, which I think is great), but there you are.
- The wrecked building Steve is in after Bucky's death is the same bar in London they were in earlier, only bombed out. I didn't catch that the first time around, and it's not immediately evident or mentioned explicitly. But that's some great choice for setting.
- I don't think I mentioned this properly in my last reaction post, but: my god, Chris Evans is fine in this movie. One of the benefits of re-watching little scenes over and over again is that, once you have the dialogue memorized, you can spend you attention on the important things -- like how pretty his eyelashes are, or the fact that those pants he wears in the post-credits punching bag scene cling very nicely. :D
- This is not spoilery at all, so I'm putting it outside the cut. You know that section in the credits for assistants? Well, one of the people credited as "assistant to Mr. Evans" is, I kid you not, named Zachary Jarvis. Zachary. Jarvis. WHAT. That a) is the biggest coincidence in the world, b) he was hired because someone thought it would be awesome, or c) someone in the credits department over at Marvel Studios is having a good giggle right now. Possibly all of the above. I mean, seriously.
And finally, you should all go check out this HQ scan of a recent EW article on the Avengers movie. I have been alternating between excited and nervous about Joss Whedon directing, but this has landed me firmly on the excited side of the fence. Also, I cannot wait for all of the stories from the shoot that are bound to trickle out over the next year. :D
- I'm still enormously fond of Steve Rogers. I feel this needs to be said.
- The more I see of her, the more I like Peggy, and all her intelligence and competence. She's clearly off doing missions when she's not working with Steve; of all the people shooting at the saboteur who shoots Dr. Erskine, she's the one who wings him; that gorgeous shot that takes out the getaway driver; etc. And I love when she decides to help Steve -- often in that situation, you get the "you have to let me go!" speech from the hero to the love interest, and the love interest tends to just sort of relent and stand there, waving a handkerchief and watching the hero head off to battle. But Peggy? She fucking commits to that shit. It's like she decides, well, if I'm going to let this happen, then by god I'm going to make it happen. And then she gets Howard Stark to fly a plane into enemy airspace so Steve can parachute in, argues with Steve when he decides to jump out early because she wants to see it through, stands up and defends her decision to Colonel Phillips, and doesn't regret any of it one little bit. Talk about owning your actions. I'm really very sad that we won't get to see her again. I plan to make up for this by trying to convince everyone to write her into their XMFC fics.
- There's this one moment, after the "nobody's perfect" line -- Peggy has just walked off, and Steve just has the dopiest look of infatuation on his face; I half-expect cartoon hearts to starting flying around his head, for real. And then he visibly snaps himself back into professional mode. It is completely, unbearably adorable, every single time.
- Another moment: when Erskine and Peggy are trying to turn off the machine and Steve stops them, Howard Stark is the one who actually takes action. No one orders him to do it, and Peggy and Dr. Erskine both still seem undecided, but Howard listens to Steve and just does it. I don't know why I like that so much, but I do.
- Steve's motorcycle! Let's talk about how great his motorcycle is. I hope Tony tricks out another one for him, just like dear ol' dad.
- Okay, subtle cool thing I noticed re: the confluence of Howard Stark, Asgard technology, arc reactors, and Tony's suit tech. The Asgard box thing led to the disintegration guns, the Valkyrie doomsday weapon, etc. But Howard Stark then got a hold of some of that tech, and being a Stark, clearly did further work with it -- and my theory is that the arc reactor is a direct descendant of this. The movie itself implies this connectivity: if you pay close attention -- and have seen bits of both Captain America and Iron Man countless times over -- it's very easy to recognize that the colors, lighting, and sound effects for all of this tech (disintegration guns, Valkyrie, arc reactor, Iron Man's repulsors) are variations on a theme. That is such a cool thing to get to do with an interconnected movie-verse like this!
- It's hard to pick out exactly what Steve's character arc is, since it's not exactly the usual "man gains powers, struggles with responsibility" story you see most of the time, with radioactive spider-bites and armor-inventions and so on. (Or, as
marinarusalka said, it "makes for a nice change to see a superhero origin plot that doesn't boil down to "asshole learns to be a decent person."") If I had to describe it, I think I'd settle for "a good man become a great one"; he doesn't have to grow into his moral code or come up with one, he gets -- and then also makes -- the opportunity to put his ideals into action, making them reality, and it literally changes the world for the better. It's a very Frank Capra-type story (and I bet that Steve is a huge Capra fan, for sure), which is something that has sadly gone out of fashion.- "The Star-Spangled Man" is ridiculous ear-wormy. It plays over the credits after the propaganda-art bit, and having to experience at work at least once every day was a true test of my sanity (not that it's not fun, in a supremely campy way, but OMG MAKE IT STOP). Basically, I have an enormous amount of sympathy for Steve, who I'm sure had the damn thing running through his head 24/7 during the USO tour. I bet he would start absentmindedly whistling it on missions sometimes, and the Howling Commandos would all throw things at him to get him to stop.
- Comparing/contrasting Tony Stark and Steve Rogers bears interesting results -- their origin stories have lots of similarities and key differences which make them very fun foils for each other. A few points:
1. A scientist friend dies in the process of helping each achieve their powers, and neither can do anything to save them. Yinsen sacrifices himself for Tony, while Dr. Erskine is shot by a saboteur; Tony, of course, blames himself both for Yinsen's choice and for creating the guns that killed him, and feels unworthy of the sacrifice. Steve just chases down and fights the bad guy in the pursuit of justice, and lives up to Erskine's belief in him. This is pretty typically them -- Steve is pretty solid with himself, and chooses to attack the external cause responsible without any self-recrimination. Tony chooses instead to craft an entire superhero identity around guilt, self-loathing, and over-reaching responsibility. (I really think he could've used the speech Peggy gives Steve in Captain America. Only, I don't think it would've really sunk in the same way.)
2. Family issues. Steve's dad died fighting in WWI; Steve tries to join the 107th in his memory. It's really not clear to me whether Steve knew his father -- and I don't think he ever did, the timing doesn't work out -- but his mother certainly raised him as a single parent. Tony's daddy issues can basically be seen from space: inferiority complex, resentment, estrangement, legacy, etc. They were both orphaned as teenagers -- Steve in the middle of the Depression at an unknown age, and Tony at 17 with, as always, more money than God. We don't know a lot about Tony's mom in movie-verse, so I can't speak to that aspect.
3. Body issues. Both have suffered drastic changes to their physical selves in the last couple of years -- Steve and the Super Soldier Serum, and Tony's kidnapping/trauma/arc reactor surgery. Again, poor Tony's is much more negative, and Steve seems to have gotten the body his mind insisted he had all along, but neither can be entirely comfortable. Tony's self-destructive streak is also important to note here; in the comics especially, he has a bad tendency to push himself beyond rational limits, and will sacrifice himself in painful ways at the drop of a hat. Steve is still a dork inside a pinup's body (and luckily has the modesty to handle this well), but he spent most of his life before the past year dealing with constant illness and frustration, and that leaves a mark on one's personality. Tony led a life pretty sheltered from violence -- at least on a personal level, despite his weapons development before Afghanistan -- and, as far as I can tell, didn't do much fighting if any before becoming Iron Man, whereas Steve seems to have been beaten up in every back alley and parking lot in Brooklyn.
- For those who might be interested, that list on Steve's medical chart in the first recruitment center scene reads:
Summary of Patient Health Issues:
Asthma
Scarlet fever
Rheumatic fever
Sinusitis
Chronic or frequent colds
High blood pressure
Palpitation or pounding in heart
Easy fatigability
Heart trouble
Nervous trouble of any sort
Has had household contact with tuberculosis
Parent/sibling with diabetes.
You know, I've never thought about it before, but Steve Rogers is a bit like Miles Vorkosigan. He's far less hyperactive and manipulative, obviously, but they both have that same "I won't let my body stop me from doing the things that need doing" attitude, and they both have pretty big ideas about what needs doing. Steve tends to do it more physically, though, even despite his initially weak body, so the serum was a great thing for him. Miles just developed a really twisty and ambitious mind to compensate; I honestly think if he were given the same treatment, it would do him more harm than good at this point. Hmm.
- So I've been thinking about it, and movie!Bucky is basically a combination of different aspects from Steve's childhood friend Arnie + the comicsverse Bucky Barnes. I don't really have any thoughts on this (aside from mentioning that Arnie was canonically gay and there was a plotline where Baron Zemo kidnaps his partner and Steve helps with the rescue, which I think is great), but there you are.
- The wrecked building Steve is in after Bucky's death is the same bar in London they were in earlier, only bombed out. I didn't catch that the first time around, and it's not immediately evident or mentioned explicitly. But that's some great choice for setting.
- I don't think I mentioned this properly in my last reaction post, but: my god, Chris Evans is fine in this movie. One of the benefits of re-watching little scenes over and over again is that, once you have the dialogue memorized, you can spend you attention on the important things -- like how pretty his eyelashes are, or the fact that those pants he wears in the post-credits punching bag scene cling very nicely. :D
- This is not spoilery at all, so I'm putting it outside the cut. You know that section in the credits for assistants? Well, one of the people credited as "assistant to Mr. Evans" is, I kid you not, named Zachary Jarvis. Zachary. Jarvis. WHAT. That a) is the biggest coincidence in the world, b) he was hired because someone thought it would be awesome, or c) someone in the credits department over at Marvel Studios is having a good giggle right now. Possibly all of the above. I mean, seriously.
And finally, you should all go check out this HQ scan of a recent EW article on the Avengers movie. I have been alternating between excited and nervous about Joss Whedon directing, but this has landed me firmly on the excited side of the fence. Also, I cannot wait for all of the stories from the shoot that are bound to trickle out over the next year. :D
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2011-10-01 03:59 am (UTC)On it!
I bet he would start absentmindedly whistling it on missions sometimes, and the Howling Commandos would all throw things at him to get him to stop.
Ahaha, someone should write that.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-10-01 09:20 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-10-01 11:14 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-10-01 11:37 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-10-01 04:10 am (UTC)I want to draw little hearts around this post! ♥ ♥
And I also badly want to rewatch all the Avengers movies now because they are all just so goddamn fun! (And yes, well done Chris Evans on loveliness. Very well done indeed).
:)
Jaydeyn
(no subject)
Date: 2011-10-01 09:21 pm (UTC)Yeah, I definitely plan to acquire and re-watch all of the Marvel movies before going to see The Avengers when it comes out. Good times!
(no subject)
Date: 2011-10-01 09:25 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-10-01 09:31 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-10-01 09:38 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2011-10-01 10:37 pm (UTC)So yeah, totally okay. :)
(no subject)
Date: 2011-10-02 03:01 am (UTC)The scene that first made me love Steve is the flagpole scene--everyone else tries to capitalize on their brawn, but he uses his brain to work out the problem. Hot guys are good, but hot, smart, humble guys are TEH AWESOMESAUCE.
I can't wait until I can buy a DVD of this movie and watch it one billion times.
(no subject)
Date: 2011-10-02 05:09 am (UTC)(Dang it. I need a Captain America icon...)
(no subject)
Date: 2011-10-02 07:54 pm (UTC)